Title: GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: SP3OSJ on 29. June 2018, 10:46:44
Hi,
colleagues from the project asked me to publish my materials OVI40.
Publishes the gerbers PCB of the OVI40 controller.
and file OVI40 controller design in Sprint-Layout 6.0
Please download:
EDIT by DF8OE: <Link temporarily removed because the contents does not match license>
73
Artur |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DJ0RG on 29. June 2018, 11:02:07
I'm new to this, and it is not my business, but is publishing internals really what you want to do at this point in time? I'm confused if this is coordinated with all stake holders, especially Andreas...
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 29. June 2018, 11:23:45
Artur is not a member of our development team and what he is doing and writing and publishing is within his own responsibility
Artur can do this because it is HIS work - it is Open Source and it is NOT our Gerbers. Of course it is not an own development - he has "cloned" our original PCB and made some changes. His software allows to take a scanned image of a PCB for a starting point. I by myself call a layout which is completely different from others "own work" and something Artur has done is "cloning". But that is philosophical - we all can make our own thoughts about such things... It is of course not something that was intended by us (the developers) and we will not publish our Gerbers until the day we are no longer working on the project.
And, honestly, that is one reason I do not publish any detail about RF parts at this point. I do not want that PCBs of not ready developed, not working PCBs are available from sources that are not our "official sources" and we must discuss and support things that are not garbaged by us...
But let's talk about *real development* - not about cloning!
Artur, by the way: what is going on with your 23cm project? Everything is working fine ::) ??
vy 73
Andreas |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DJ0RG on 29. June 2018, 12:02:20
Ah OK, then the "OVI40" naming for Artur's project mislead me into the wrong direction. Mea culpa! I thought that OVI40 is the name of your project for the Ortsverband I40, and not for the polish clone.
I appreciate (and actually admire) the original OVI40 work, thanks for this!
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: SP3OSJ on 29. June 2018, 12:07:40
Why can not I publish my work?
Amateur Radio is a hobby and please treat it as such.
I do not have to earn money on my hobby works!
This is my choice
Andreas I'm glad you ask about it
I do not have MHC485 mixers up to 23cm (import from China)
Synthesizer ADF4350 works well controlled ATTiny13, is synchronization
and there is frequency.
Should be OK. |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 29. June 2018, 12:10:34
Yes. Artur named his clone "OVI40" ::).
You will only get ORIGINAL informations, PCBs, kits and so on via our pages amateurfunk-sulingen.de and from me (DF8OE). Maybe I will invite others at some point to help me but if this is the case I will publish that.
vy 73
Andreas |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DJ0RG on 29. June 2018, 12:18:49
@Artur: Please don't take me too serious, I'm new and not experienced too much. For example, I was not aware that you copied and adjusted the OVI40, although I can read up this on this forum. My mistake!
The only thing I find "interesting" is that you use OVI40 name. But again: not my business, that is something between you and Andreas. Who, to my best understanding, has based OVI40 on the mcHF experience ;-)
Enough talked about this, I think all is clear now. Enjoy!
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 29. June 2018, 12:22:08
Very interesting - Artur. Let's wait about the missing parts.
I am not on a so happy (??) position that I can earn my money with not amateur-radio related things. Actually 80% of my work is repair of amateur radio equipment, and OVI40 will be another project where I *must* earn money. Of course I never will get an adequate fee for hundreds of hours R&D - but that is not my wish. I only want to get a small fee and I am sure I will get that fee.
In detail:
When I compare the tracks of OVI40 original board and your board I see so many tracks that are identical or nearly identical to our PCB that I am not willling to call this "own work". It is a clone. And I would like it that you do not name it same way as "original" OVI40.
I suggest you call it something like "...based upon OVI40... ...modified by SP3OSJ..." so that nobody is misleading it is an original PCB.
vy 73
Andreas |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 30. June 2018, 09:50:02
This is the first cloning of OVI40 and to show the possibilities I explain in short form
And yes: it is cloning not an "own work".
- It is allowed to take the schematics and design an own PCB.
- It is allowed to publish the result if you follow the very simple rules of license (see next listing)
- Regarding "Ham-Spirit": I by myself never would scan a PCB, do slightly modifications and call this "my own work". There are some snippets of own work (and it may be that they make fundamental difference in behaviour) - but I cannot call the sum "my own work". This Gerbers / the Sprintlayout are the result of a scanning of original PCB which is slightly modified!
Very short list of what to do when you want to publish own work that you have done on OVI40:
- add the file containing the license text to your work
- make clear (in textfile AND on PCBs, schematics e.g.) what is the base of this (where it is forked from) - e.g. "OVI40 - https://www.amateurfunk-sulingen.de/projects/ovi40-sdr/
- make clear who is the publisher of this new work (in textfile AND on PCBs, schematics e.g.) - e.g. "reworked/improved/ by xxx yyy"
The reasons are very simple. Someone who finds the zip in the web must be able to see
- what license it has
- where is the origin
- who has published the files which are in front of him
But the intention of putting all to Open Source is not that as much as possible people clone the parts and publish slightly differed versions. The intention is to invite others to contribute their work. And as many OMs are already present in the "Hall of Fame" of UHSDR there will of course be a "Hall of Fame" of hardware, too. So Artur: if you want to contribute your 23cm PCB to the project you can publish everything about it within OVI40 (I am the maintainer and will add everything you want). You can put your name / callsign on every sheet you contribute. But it must integrate in Cern OHL - because every contribution must follow this license, too.
In fact Artur:
- there is no copy of the license in your zip
- there is no sufficient information that makes clear what is the origin of this
- there is no sufficient information who has published this
Informations must be in text form "as a file" within the zip AND shown on hardware production files (Gerbers, sourcefiles of PCB CAD) so that you can get the information when you simply see the PCB
Please remove the existent zip and add the neccessary informations. Or - better: contribute your work.
Regarding used CAD software:
Altium/Protel: very powerful, but expensive commercial closed-source-software for Windows.
KiCAD: free, powerful Open Source software, available for all platforms. Maintained by developer team of CERN. I use it (and recommend it) for contributing, because everybody regardles of PC operating system and money can use it.
Sprint-Layout 6.0: cheap closed source software for Windows system. Advantage is that you can use a picture of an existing PCB as base and simply copy the existing tracks. In German we call it "Malen nach Zahlen (https://www.microtool.de/allgemein/malen-nach-zahlen-zu-ostern/)" and it is a good skill for children who cannot draw but want to draw.
vy 73
Andreas
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: peter_77 on 01. July 2018, 10:18:27
| Yes. Artur named his clone "OVI40" |
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Strange. Are you sure ?
I thought he called it SParrow ?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X17n4Rki7OU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X17n4Rki7OU)
(His mcHF clone is called Eagle)
http://sp3osj.kooikerhondje.com.pl/eagle/index.html (http://sp3osj.kooikerhondje.com.pl/eagle/index.html)
Btw. both are very nice designed, especially the cases, and work perfectly well.
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 01. July 2018, 10:31:28
Yes - there exist Sparrow and Eagle, too. Artur mixes up his own work and is cloning something (like OVI40 PCB), too.
I am very sad about this. Looking at Eagle and Sparrow, his 6m/4m project for mcHF, his 23cm project I can clearly see that Artur *can* design PCBs by his own. But "his OVI40 PCB" is a clone. You can see that when you compare our origin layout and his layout. It is *not* completely new but there are many tracks absolutely identical. That never would happen if you design a PCB by your own.
Additional there are the arguments about license regarding naming of the PCB, showing the origin of the project and the origin of the zip file. If Artur corrects these points I would not remove the link. But my definition of "Ham-Spirit" regarding the way the PCB was created is untouched... But that is only MY point of view.
vy 73
Andreas |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: dl2eea on 01. July 2018, 18:03:22
I've just done a comparison with Arthur's version and I'm full of admiration. Very clean and correct performance. Congratulations Artur!
In my opinion, the version of Arthur is not a copy but it has been reworked and corrected. That's why talking about cloning is out of place.
73
Josef |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 01. July 2018, 18:38:20
Maybe that it works better or has improvements ( I wrote in my first answers). But that is not the permission to call it "own work".
At firmware all contributors must use GitHub. That is the base of contribution.
In Hardware is is another way. UI-PCB is copyrighted by DG8YGW and not Open Source. As I always wrote: PCB layout is the only thing you are not allowed to clone. So if Artur marks his "version" as I recommend I am willing to give him permission to publish in spite of that ~80% of the tracks are clones from DG8YGW's layout.
But - I hope you understand - I can not agree that Artur calls that "his own work".
Nothing against "reworked by...".
vy 73
Andreas |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: SP3OSJ on 01. July 2018, 23:13:52
Andreas, do not talk to me like that!
Why is your malice?
It's not better to do a project how to write such bad things?
I treated you like a brother.
I helped You so much:
1) You asked for my PCBs from other projects, I sent a PCB to you.
2) You asked for the company's address in China to produce PCBs and published them on the forum
3) You asked in a private email for gerbers files, I sent them to the forum for everyone and you got angry.
Why? |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 02. July 2018, 06:52:35
I am angry because of:
- there is no copy of the license in your zip
- there is no sufficient information that makes clear what is the origin of this
- there is no sufficient information who has published this
You *are* allowed to make your own PCBs. But please follow these very easy rules - that's all.
I asked for the Gerbers in a private email to see how the layout is comparing to our original. If I would have seen the amount of tracks which are nearly identical I would have talked to you in a private email correspondence.
Firstly I was not angry. I am the webmaster of this pages and all is running on my own server. So I can see if you have visited the pages after my first answer and you have - but no reaction for more than a day. So I must think you do ignore my writings. After that I was becoming slightly angry indeed...
Please follow the rules and everything is ok again.
vy 73
Andreas
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 12. July 2018, 17:34:43
Hi Artur,
now I have waited longer than a week for your reaction - but there wasn't any.
Do you want to publish your work? Not a problem - follow this license (https://managed-cern-production-bucket-lhoz0gl12lnv.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/file/2388/cern_ohl_v_1_2.txt?X-Amz-Expires=600&X-Amz-Date=20180712T172435Z&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIPK5THR3DIK5DF2Q/20180712/eu-west-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=ed9734f16599f005f9854ec6b75966504503721d9b81317eaa2095b86007de1b).
And of course we can be like brothers and contribute to a project - following these simple rules.
But this is not a request - it is recommended!
Please remove / rework the file whichcan be downloaded from the link you provided. It takes only 30 minutes (max) and everything would be ok. I will wait 1 week before I will react again. (This is send via PM, too).
Remember: I am the maintainer, but not the only person who has contributed to the project. Please be fair and accept the rules.
vy 73
Andreas |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: SP3OSJ on 12. July 2018, 18:22:10
How do you do Andreas.
I am very surprised.
I have changed it a long time ago!
and the link has not been unblocked :( .
Vy 73
Artur |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 12. July 2018, 19:23:51
Hi Artur,
thanks - I am very busy in working on OVI40 RF ::) But all is ok. it takes time - and time is the only thing we cannot blow up.
I have checked the file 2 hours ago.
I cannot see any description file (.txt) which contains the license, the origin of the project and the origin of the downloaded file - what I recommend...
I have attached the screenshot of the archive. Only gerbers, jpegs and "special file" UI_filal.lay6. No text file...
Normally each Open Source download includes the following textfiles:
- readme.txt (cotains the origin, what is changed and by whom)
- license.txt (license in textform)
- install.txt / usage.txt (description what this is and how to use
Please - where are these files (or minimum one of them)? Is my download incorrect?
vy 73
Andreas
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: SP3OSJ on 12. July 2018, 19:33:32
Do you want to publish your work? Not a problem - follow this license (https://managed-cern-production-bucket-lhoz0gl12lnv.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/uploads/attachment/file/2388/cern_ohl_v_1_2.txt?X-Amz-Expires=600&X-Amz-Date=20180712T172435Z&X-Amz-Algorithm=AWS4-HMAC-SHA256&X-Amz-Credential=AKIAIPK5THR3DIK5DF2Q/20180712/eu-west-1/s3/aws4_request&X-Amz-SignedHeaders=host&X-Amz-Signature=ed9734f16599f005f9854ec6b75966504503721d9b81317eaa2095b86007de1b).
vy 73
Andreas
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You do it specifically to tease
is not it better to work on a new project?
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: dl2eea on 12. July 2018, 20:47:29
| We can download these files from the Polish forum without asking anyone. |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: SP3OSJ on 13. July 2018, 05:37:32
I make all changes. Name my PCB is OVI41.
I did not know that it would be such a problem, especially since I wanted to do it for free. I prefer to devote my time to new products. I can not fix problems that can not be fixed.
Sorry! |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 13. July 2018, 07:02:44
Where are the small text files which describe
- origin
- source of download
- license (as link - better as text)
It doen't matter if you publish it "for free" or if you do have commercial interests. These rules are neccessary for "working together" in an Open World.
Not everyone is able to open gerber files - and much less can open Sprint Layout files. So it is mandatory to add these text files.
I by myself would add small textfile where I describe what I have changed like the commit comments of GitHub. Of course you can write there "just a space" but for better understanding the commit comment must be as precise as it can be.
Hopefully many contributors for hardware will exit in the future. If this minimum informations are missing the result will be CHAOS/DISORDER.
The rules of CernOHL are valid not only in our discussion group. They are valid all over the world. They are valid for publishing at Polish sources, too.
And the most disappointing thing: I am missing Ham-Spirit and the understanding that this is mandatory...
Arguments like "I do not have time" are not acceptable. For example I have learnt much in working with KiCAD because it is mandatory to publish schematics (and additional functional descriptions) for everything I am working on. We will get much more contributors if it is easy to understand how it works - same as in firmware. Comments in code are highly appreciated. This time I needed for learning to do good schematics are ONE of 1000 reasons, why it is impossible to do such a complex development in a few weeks. Artur must not draw new schematics because of he does not change anything there (I think - but I am not able to confirm). He only has to add some text files which are written in less time than this posting has taken.
Disappointing :'(
EDIT:
Some times ago I forked a GitHub-Repo where some polish Hams started a project to reprogram radiosonde RS41 for usage in 70cm band. Because I do hunt sondes, too I found it interesting but there are some parts missing. GutHub shows the origin (where it is forked from) automatically. But the first thin I added was a license text (as the original author named the license - but forgot to ad the text) and created a readme, where neccessary informations for understanding the project can be found - you can compare origin and my fork if you want RS41HUP (https://github.com/df8oe/RS41HUP) In the meantime Qyon accepted my pull request and now both repos have the same informations.
vy 73
Andreas
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF5LI on 13. July 2018, 11:35:25
Der arme Artur, dessen Arbeit ich sehr schätze, denn schliesslich habe ich schon seinen Eagle und seinen Sparrow nachgebaut, ist wohl der Meinung, dass er mit der Bezeichnung " OV I41 " ein genügendes Unterscheidungsmerkmal angegeben hat. Vielleicht sollte ihm jemand mal erklären, was die Bezeichnung OV I40 bedeutet und fragen, ob er einen neuen Ortsverein aufgemacht hat ;D ;D ;D.
Im übrigen hat er seine geclonte Platine auf der Basis der alten V1.7 Prototypen gemacht, das ist doch sowieso schon überholt.... |
Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: Noah_Anuk on 13. July 2018, 11:38:12
Andreas, this discussion is ridiculous. Some time ago you illegaly cloned Chris mcHF project without his consent and renamed it to ovi40!
Chris said explicitly for non commercial use only, some posts earlier you wrote: "... OVI40 will be another project where I *must* earn money."
For completeness please everyone read chris twitter post and think who you support:
https://twitter.com/M0NKA_/status/884702466637537282
Is it maybe possible that you, Andreas, are the pirate?
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Title: Re:GERBERS from UI_OVI40
Post by: DF8OE on 13. July 2018, 12:34:11
Hi Artur, hi ,
I wrote: I am the owner of this server. I can see who is posting, who does register twice using different usernames and so on.
You are right: I do not have the time to discuss that with you (or your "mirror"). I have better things to do.
But now very clearly: I warn you what you are writing and what you are doing. The internet is not a room free of justice and law. And misusing this forum for making bad discussions will lead to deactivate BOTH users. For now I will kick off the mirror.
OVI40 design is completely different from mcHF. You only can take a look at UI-PCB at the moment but you see it uses different processor and other LCD, two audio codecs and much more differences. To call this a clone is stating of no-technical-knowledge.
I will close this bad thread now and hope there will be calm now. But in the interest of all contributors I will take care that license is respected.
vy 73
Andreas |
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